tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post1598279305969280787..comments2023-12-25T11:13:04.495+00:00Comments on Seraphic Singles: The Pleasure of Your CompanySeraphichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-39807396895141105692012-09-27T11:10:47.642+01:002012-09-27T11:10:47.642+01:00Jo, I have had a think. And my think is not all gu...Jo, I have had a think. And my think is not all guys are good and a lot are seriously immature. But also, there's only so much gratitude a guy is going to feel for the signal honour of being allowed to take a girl out, especially if he does this all the time. <br /><br />If a man asks a woman out to dinner, and they have a good time, and she says "Thank-you, and he says "You're very welcome", then that is that, unless he wants to ask her out again. <br /><br />He probably will if there was a real spark, and the date didn't go on too long, and there are no serious personality impediments on his part, e.g. "I don't want a relationship; I just want to have animalistic sex"--which is a quote, incidentally, from a guy who went out once with a friend of mine. <br /><br />I don't think your average guy has been burned by women who treat him as a cash machine and a personal attendant, but that he has heard urban legends about men who are treated that way. Any man who acts or speaks as if he thought most women were money-grubbing whores is strictly to be avoided. <br /><br />Don't, by the way, believe the Roissy narrative of who women are. <br /><br />As for paying, whoever invites is expected to pay. End of story. <br /><br />In Seraphicland, Single women don't ask men out, but not being naive, I know Single women are going to keep on asking men out anyway, so if they do, they had better not expect Mr Man to pick up the cheque. (And they must smile sweetly and make a show of dismay if the man insists on paying half.) <br /><br />If women do expect men to pay on the dates that the women arranged themselves, they are merely enforcing the rumour that women-in-general, not just prostitutes, use their wiles to separate men from great god cash. <br /><br />If Mr Man asks out a girl and gets mad because she doesn't say, "Oh no, please no, let me pay my half. Oh, come on," then he doesn't deserve a second date. End of. <br /><br />As for men saying "It wasn't a date, it was just dinner!", well, that's their way out of a situation that makes them unhappy. There's no law that a man ever has to ask you out on a second date or consider himself your boyfriend after three dates or that he can't ask you out for this Friday and some other girl for this Saturday. Men have free will, and until they have made some kind of clear, verbal, unmistakable commitment to one girl, they are free to see other girls or not to see her. <br /><br />"Hey, what gives? You took me out on a date and then nothing!" "No, I didn't. It was just dinner" is not a conversation I would ever want to have with a man. <br />Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-77261084836036675532012-09-27T03:54:17.164+01:002012-09-27T03:54:17.164+01:00On the flipside of this, I have had quite a few ex...On the flipside of this, I have had quite a few experiences with the young man acting tremendously ungrateful for an evening out that they were so enthusiastic about arranging (very bizzare, considering the actual 'dates' were not so bad). I think perhaps this may have something to do with the fact that they've had too many experiences with girls expecting men to be their personal attendant and checkbook more than good company. Some men are so sensitive about bill-paying that they get disgruntled when one does not appear absolutely foaming at the mouth to split it. <br /><br />Also, I think at some point something needs to be said about young men who are in the habit of ambiguously asking young ladies out to "dinner" and really just meaning, well, dinner, or at least wanting to keep up the appearance as a safety blanket just in case they happen to embarrass themselves or have a miserable time, so they can avoid calling it a "date." Our complicated female brains go bonkers about this. Perhaps this beckons back to the whole discussion about the modern concept of "boyfriends and girlfriends". Jonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-71097933160815946362012-09-26T23:36:27.614+01:002012-09-26T23:36:27.614+01:00Nobody advocates being impolite in any of the dati...Nobody advocates being impolite in any of the dating books I've mentioned. What they do advocate is having a sense of your own self-worth. Your time is valuable, your attention is valuable, and men should realize that. If they don't, they need every so-subtle hints. <br /><br />Even if you don't feel your time is valuable, think of all the other ways you could be spending your time instead of listening to this stranger talk - out with friends, babysitting your niece, doing your favorite sport or even just curling up on a couch with a good book. <br /><br />I think that if you gush a man about how wonderful he is and unexpectedly well he treated you, he might feel he has a chance for other forms of 're-payment' - I mean, you are sooo grateful to him, right?<br /><br />In my experience, a simple 'thank you' or 'thank you, I had a lovely time' (if the latter is true) is completely sufficient. It's like the rule to simply say thank you for compliments ie about your clothing and not say "oh this old thing, it's a hand-me-down, I'm surprised you like it".<br /><br />There is a difference between being cold and entitled, and being self-confident. Nobody advocates rudeness, just restraint.<br /><br />Also - some men just like to listen to themselves talk. They don't necessarily have to be in love with you to ask you out so that you can listen to them talk. <br /><br />Sorry if I'm a bit vehement. I learned these lessons the hard way, and would love to spare others.Urszulahttp://whereismysuitcase.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-46644822033636311092012-09-26T18:44:54.327+01:002012-09-26T18:44:54.327+01:00Oh goodness! I just used that "all expenses&q...Oh goodness! I just used that "all expenses" phrase without thinking about it, but I am 100% on board with not jetting off to Cancun! Anyway I appreciate your response and agree with what you said :) Mustard Seednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-85764445254338865462012-09-26T11:57:57.753+01:002012-09-26T11:57:57.753+01:00One problem with the "all expenses paid"...One problem with the "all expenses paid" line of thinking is it suggests that men ask women out either out of a spirit of avuncular generosity, or to get something. "I buy you dinner, you [fill in the blank]." <br /><br />But that is not what the good guys are thinking. The good guys are thinking, "X is really pretty and nice. I'd like to have dinner with X and talk. I wonder if X would actually come out to dinner with me and talk. Because that would be great. I would be so happy. That would be such a treat for me." <br /><br />It is NOT about dollars and cents (or pounds and pence or zlotys and groszy)! The reason why men invite women to dinners in restaurants is not to spend the money but so they don't have to cook and so that you are in public. A man can't just invite you alone to his house for dinner and a film; it wouldn't be respectful. It might send the wrong message. <br />Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-17976397373654915052012-09-26T09:21:27.512+01:002012-09-26T09:21:27.512+01:00"All expenses paid"--shudder. Presumably..."All expenses paid"--shudder. Presumably it's a cup of coffee and a bun or supper or at most supper and a movie, not a holiday in Cancun. And presumably the whole point is to share time and a nice experience together. <br /><br />Obviously I am not saying "Don't say thank you" or "Pretend you are bored." I am saying, "Don't tell the guy this was the highlight of your life." (Girls actually do do that.) Be yourself, but don't act like there's no tomorrow and just stay out as late as you both like. <br /><br />Men do all kinds of things that make sense to them at the time, and then they wonder the next day why they feel bored and disappointed now. A lot of them have the EQ of carrots, which is why we have to practise self-discipline not only for our sake, but for theirs. <br /><br />There's a post in that. <br /><br />Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-21434977152681537442012-09-26T03:33:35.259+01:002012-09-26T03:33:35.259+01:00If a normal friend/relative invited me somewhere a...If a normal friend/relative invited me somewhere all expenses paid, and I didn't thank them, wouldn't that be rude? Is just saying "thank you" overly grateful?<br /><br />If a man has a good time with me at dinner, but hates talking, why would he ask me to get drinks/dessert and talk some more afterwards (assuming he doesn't have any ulterior motives like getting me to drink too much)? This doesn't make sense to me.<br /><br />I understand the idea of having my own life and doing things that make me happy, but I don't see what that has to do with acting aloof when you're actually interested - it seems like acting that way sends a false message. Mustard Seednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-43595758809518378602012-09-25T22:04:46.814+01:002012-09-25T22:04:46.814+01:00Andrea, I will have to sleep on that one.
Urszula...Andrea, I will have to sleep on that one.<br /><br />Urszula, it probably isn't really "out-of-date", just a few years old now. But I mean what I say--I love old relationship books and usually I pay attention to them only after they've been around for awhile and the official buzz has calmed down. <br /><br />Amusingly, the advice from book to book and decade to decade often overlaps. It's just repackaged again and again, with a new voice or some new creative insights, or a word about new technology. Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-19524735474280976802012-09-25T21:57:29.606+01:002012-09-25T21:57:29.606+01:00I totally agree with this advice. While I have nev...I totally agree with this advice. While I have never said the words thank you for taking me out, or anything along those lines, I'm sure I've conveyed "too much interest" just by being surprised that I'm actually interested in someone while on a date. That's because it's Rare, and I've been dating for Too Long. :-) <br /><br />for example, I was recently Bored out of my Gourd on a date, and subsequently got a text from the guy asking me out for the next weekend on a Monday, about five minutes after the date ended. <br /><br />This was inevitable, because I wasn't actually interested in him. But I feigned polite interest in order to be polite and respectful. <br /><br />Do you have thoughts on how to feign the experience of being on a date with someone I am not interested in when I actually am interested? <br /><br />What a convoluted question. <br />Hopefully you get the point.Andreanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-9969636629301682772012-09-25T21:08:41.684+01:002012-09-25T21:08:41.684+01:00^What Urszula said. :o) (Though I haven't read...^What Urszula said. :o) (Though I haven't read that book.)n.panchanchahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14371104836667363271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-36041286503943807422012-09-25T20:49:01.049+01:002012-09-25T20:49:01.049+01:00Is the book really out of date? I read it a few ye...Is the book really out of date? I read it a few years ago. I have to caution I don't agree with everything that is in it, and some of the examples might offend younger and more sensitive readers. That said, I thought it was a helpful, secular kick in the pants to get me to see reason. And behind all the dating advice, its message - that women should focus on making themselves happy, and let men do the chasing - strikes me as very "Rules-y".Urszulahttp://whereismysuitcase.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-13457817946519424142012-09-25T18:55:22.324+01:002012-09-25T18:55:22.324+01:00Em, yes. Unless they are your brothers or your cou...Em, yes. Unless they are your brothers or your cousins or very elderly men or very, very young men. Like twelve years old young men. <br /><br />Urszula, I always meant to read that book. I should read that book. Out-of-date bestselling dating advice books are my special love.<br /><br />Perpetua, my feeling is that it doesn't matter so much that I spent my teen years and twenties completely uprooted from reality if I can help other girls with the lessons I learned. So I'm glad this post spoke to you. Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-26954135489358020602012-09-25T17:48:44.368+01:002012-09-25T17:48:44.368+01:00First off, oh. My. WORD.
I have been in that posi...First off, oh. My. WORD.<br /><br />I have been in that position all too often, but I never knew what it was that turned guys off. Auntie, you have opened my eyes. I see what I've been doing wrong in dating, and while I've been reading your blog for some time now, this is the first piece you've written that truly spoke to me. (Don't get me wrong, I love reading the blog; this is just the first truly applicable piece of advice I stumbled upon for me, personally). Thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-71547666754251867622012-09-25T17:11:41.673+01:002012-09-25T17:11:41.673+01:00I agree one hundred percent. But I don't think...I agree one hundred percent. But I don't think you'll be able to convey the point to men that your time is valuable until you internalize and believe yourself that your time is valuable. <br /><br />I remember when I was going through a terrible crush on a guy who wasn't paying any attention to me that one of my friends suggested I read the book "Why Men Love Witches" (you know the actual word). I read it from cover to cover, but I was terribly disappointed that it didn't make me any happier or my pursuit more successful. Here I was, projecting confidence, playing busy, carefully allotting him only so much time in a day, and pretending I was happy and fulfilled, and yet? Nothing! <br /><br />The point I failed to take away as another friend kindly pointed out later is that I should have been building a life outside my crush object, a life that was happy and fulfilled, instead of just pretending in order to impress him. In other words, I had missed the whole point of the book.<br /><br />Lesson learned. A few years later, I'm now a much more Seraphic Single. The book helped in more ways than one.Urszulahttp://whereismysuitcase.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-75333868965515886802012-09-25T13:39:51.243+01:002012-09-25T13:39:51.243+01:00Oh man. Soooo true. It comes back to the whole men...Oh man. Soooo true. It comes back to the whole men are not women point, therefore, do not treat them as such.<br /> It is hard to hold back though, especially if you don't get asked on dates often/ever or if you really like each other and get along well. <br />Seraphic, does this guideline hold for male/female friendships too? Should we refrain from several-hours-long conversations or time spent in each other's company?Emnoreply@blogger.com