tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post357737646600857349..comments2023-12-25T11:13:04.495+00:00Comments on Seraphic Singles: Advice for the High-achievingSeraphichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-20625343806838696142013-10-31T17:20:39.700+00:002013-10-31T17:20:39.700+00:00@ Pearlmusic
"giving a more profound insigh...@ Pearlmusic <br /><br />"giving a more profound insight into present state of Polish Faith."<br /><br />Oh my, I had no intention of giving any profound insights whatsoever. Just some bumbling thoughts.<br /><br />Thanks for reading.Iotanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-77419186970329513882013-10-31T08:49:55.443+00:002013-10-31T08:49:55.443+00:00This is not to say, by the way, that nobody should...This is not to say, by the way, that nobody should try dating some guy within their field, if he asks her out. Still, fear of competition may be one reason why a guy in your field (or department) won't ask you out. Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-62741924528444579292013-10-31T08:49:54.915+00:002013-10-31T08:49:54.915+00:00This is not to say, by the way, that nobody should...This is not to say, by the way, that nobody should try dating some guy within their field, if he asks her out. Still, fear of competition may be one reason why a guy in your field (or department) won't ask you out. Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-88802652682260733982013-10-31T08:47:49.080+00:002013-10-31T08:47:49.080+00:00Oh heavens, how fatal! The thing to do is to call ...Oh heavens, how fatal! The thing to do is to call yourself desk jockey or a lab rat or to say, "I write down numbers and push them around a bit." <br /><br />The principle of non-competition is the important thing, I think. When I went to Poetry Night, I always got along with the poets because even though I went to the mic to tell funny stories, I never wrote poetry. Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-86860196873977954612013-10-31T02:35:29.021+00:002013-10-31T02:35:29.021+00:00Haha, just reading Seraphic's post on British ...Haha, just reading Seraphic's post on British deprecation and how it really scores points here - and it's making me laugh thinking of this discussion and wonder if maybe we've been going about this all wrong!(for those in the UK anyway!)<br /><br /> Maybe we need to be saying things more like "well, yeah, I haven't really done much with my life, I mean, I'm the top engineer in my firm, but other than that ..." or "My university keeps me around, I don't know why, just because I pulled together a rubbish 100,000 words of groundbreaking research and scored top marks... I guess they pity me...." ;) <br /><br />Have to find humour somewhere right! ;)SundayBornnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-27340295193790926182013-10-30T23:29:45.482+00:002013-10-30T23:29:45.482+00:00This is not super-relevant to this post, but I tho...This is not super-relevant to this post, but I thought it was kind of funny when I heard about it, especially as I'm someone who doesn't currently have an ambition to enrol in a doctoral programme (let's see if I pass my Masters first, hey?)<br /><br />A friend's father is a secondary school principal, and he and a friend (another teacher?) had a public radio programme called "Could've Been PhDs". It was about education, I think. Anyway, they had no callers ringing up and asking questions, so my friend's dad got her mum to ring in with questions.Julianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-28571065631725190632013-10-30T22:28:26.062+00:002013-10-30T22:28:26.062+00:00I have bought your book but not yet read it. I'...I have bought your book but not yet read it. I'll tell you what I think about it later :-)<br /><br />(To console myself about the curch in Germany, I know now that in Switzerland it is not really better... If that is a consolation. I was in England this summer, and although the music in church was... well, rather horrible, I was so delighted that they acually pray the real words of the Gloria, Sanctus, and Credo. I really don't care about the music if the rest is good!)Magdalenanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-70099329421042803872013-10-30T21:17:54.805+00:002013-10-30T21:17:54.805+00:00Thanks Urszula and Iota for your comments giving a...Thanks Urszula and Iota for your comments giving a more profound insight into present state of Polish Faith. I'm deeply impressed with the language skills of both of you, by the way!<br /><br />And great to hear so many of you girls here are doing (or have done) PhD's! I do not advocate that seriously, but we could even start a dating website for Single Catholic PhD women, haha! Any philospohic dusters out there? :D<br /><br />What comes to my mind is that of course, bragging about one's achievements (whatever they are) makes bad impression in general. But yet, there's the opposite side of it, namely feeling embarassed about them, which can even make things worse. So I'd say, if someone is asking for details, let's not make a skeleton in the closet out of it. It's nothing to boast about but yet nothing to apologize for.<br /> <br />Moreover, in fact, my experience is that if a man has a very low self-esteem and feels insecure in our company, there's little we can do about it. Certainly, we won't help them feel much better by downplaying our success. <br /><br /><br /><br />Peralmusicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-64423220885588583682013-10-30T12:45:06.060+00:002013-10-30T12:45:06.060+00:00Ladies, really enjoying everyone's comments!
...Ladies, really enjoying everyone's comments! <br /><br />I think for me what the issue boils down to is that as for those of us single women in let's call them non-traditional or more typically male jobs/study programmes, there is a different challenge than there is for men in looking outside of our immediate peer/colleague groups to find suitable spouses based on the intricacies of gender roles. Men can do this more easily because it doesn't challenge their sense of identity as provider, protector etc. So the businessman marries the pretty waitress. But when we reverse this, I think men easily feel like we've usurped their role or made them look insufficient in some way, even thought that's totally NOT our intention, and we're just doing our best to do the jobs God has called us to do. <br /><br />I totally agree, Seraphic, that we can be more creative and diligent in compartmentalizing jobs/study in social contexts, though I think many of us have been down the rabbit trails that several of you mention of trying to find more generic ways of explaining what we do/study, which all lead back to just saying it...<br /><br />All of these things aside, the issue remains that if we're looking at partnerships with men in which we might have a more prominent job, or higher income, or more education or whatever - I think it requires special adjustments on both sides so that egos aren't hurt, and everyone feels valued and respected. <br /><br />As much as we women might be happy to marry the "Catholic philosopher dustman" because he shares our faith and intellectual interest, I think HE would have to think carefully about whether he wanted to be the dustman married to the professor or engineer, or accomplished writer, or what have you. And unfortunately there's nothing we can do about that except to be mindful, like you say, Seraphic, of not appearing boastful about our careers/education. I think the challenge of being in these positions (however generically we may approach talking about them) is that men in similar positions more readily say "hey that's great, I admire what you're doing", but men in seemingly "less qualified" positions think we're "showing off". I think going outside of our immediate circles is sometimes easier said than done, and not necessarily because we as women are unwilling or being arrogant, but because it introduces a challenge to pretty deeply held gender roles on both sides. <br /><br />PS - I was delighted to read comments from such a number of you who are also working on PhDs! Good luck one and all :)<br /><br />SundayBornnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-83860666994572527772013-10-30T12:02:15.462+00:002013-10-30T12:02:15.462+00:00@Magdalena, I share your pain about the German-spe...@Magdalena, I share your pain about the German-speaking church, well, in a Simon of Cyrene kind of way, not being German myself, except through one great-grandfather, who was Lutheran anyway and may have been born in the USA. I have a friend who keeps me up to date on what goes on his church in his village in Hesse, and my eyes almost fall out. And that petition by all those theologians--ugh! And I was in Germany myself, as you hopefully will be able to tell when you read my book. (I am hoping you read my book, for I am LONGING to know if Germanic readers will like it or hate it.)Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-13022058898070636562013-10-30T01:04:40.076+00:002013-10-30T01:04:40.076+00:00PS: Seraphic, in the article That Shall Not Be Nam...PS: Seraphic, in the article That Shall Not Be Named, they are getting their reports, among other things, a particularly nasty blog that purports itself to be a Christian and prides itself on shaming and debasing single mothers and an obsession with "sluts."<br /><br />This good Christian man and his wife will proudly write of how their nasty comments to single mothers in public. They also claim superiority to pastors, professional clergy and divinity school grads for their refusal to preach this from the pulpit. And don't even get me started on how they are obsessed with "sluts" but say not one word about how men are to be held accountable to the exact same standard.<br /><br />In short, this woman's article is supported by blogs that traffic in hateful misogyny and petty mean-spirited people. Sound and fury signifying nothing.Jackienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-1189474961906994522013-10-30T00:54:34.670+00:002013-10-30T00:54:34.670+00:00Another chick with a doctorate chiming in! Somethi...Another chick with a doctorate chiming in! Something that has really brought me into perspective in my field (the arts) is seeing some people who have their artist's diploma (Bachelor's) from a conservatory who are SO. DARN. GOOD. <br /><br />Piece of paper or not, they are completely amazing in the field and incredibly inspiring to me. I wonder if this is more common in fields that are subjective-- arts, literature? There are some writers who take your breath away and are constantly, constantly working on their craft. And who knows if they even have a high school diploma?<br /><br />I wonder if part of it is there is such a Stockholm Syndrome weirdness to academia that it becomes part of your identity? After I graduated, one of my teachers said to me, Now I can be nice to you, finally! (She had made me cry on at least one major occasion, to make a point, I believe.) WEIRD.<br /><br /><br /><br />So Jackienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-79578902949296103662013-10-29T22:25:11.457+00:002013-10-29T22:25:11.457+00:00@SundayBorn, I can't really contribute to the ...@SundayBorn, I can't really contribute to the PhD discussion, not being on that track myself, but I agree 100% with you that it takes a very secure man to make a seemingly 'uneven' relationship work. I know of one case where the girl was pursuing a PhD (mostly because she wanted to teach at the university level) and her then-boyfriend was working in the coatcheck of an elementary school (in Poland). She dropped out of the PhD, mostly I think because he was insecure and couldn't handle her being so much 'above him'. Now she is a teacher in a high school and he works at the same high school as a counselor (he got certification in the meantime). I think the only reason it has worked out so far is their social/professional possessions have more or less evened out (whether it was to her advantage to resign from the intellectual pursuit of a PhD is a decision I don't want to judge. It is not a decision I would have made, at least not for those reasons).<br /><br />Anyway, while such relationships possibly happen, I think it takes a very mature guy who is good at whatever he does, knows it, and enjoys it. Otherwise the traditional breadwinning roles - and social perceptions, not just personal entrenched ideas - can make it seem like a strike to a man's sensitive ego. Urszulahttp://whereismysuitcase.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-51938107445337531432013-10-29T20:13:24.297+00:002013-10-29T20:13:24.297+00:00Another phd student here! According to my experien...Another phd student here! According to my experience, non-academics tend to think this must be something super special, while I myself agree with Iota - it is just a step necessary within a specific career path.<br /><br />Regarding this "As far as orthodoxy and orthopraxy are concerned, the German Church is in utter crisis!" Yes, sadly that's so true! Weep, sigh, sob... I think Magnificat meant the opposite - that in the cities, people start to be more orthodox again. Churches are fuller, mass is offered multiple times each day, confession is offered and people use it. On the country, there is a spiritual DESERT. Really. Elderly people go to Mass because "it is what you do", but nobody seems to know ANYTHING about what Mass is about. Priests re-invent the missal every sunday. It is really tragic. But in the cities, hope dawns, halleluja!<br /><br />Sorry for this parallel discussion, but I am just getting really emotional about this.Magdalenanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-26108871953672541812013-10-29T20:07:38.768+00:002013-10-29T20:07:38.768+00:00Whoops I signed in a VERY old account... the previ...Whoops I signed in a VERY old account... the previous comment was me.Urszulahttp://whereismysuitcase.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-16923781269691584712013-10-29T20:06:23.290+00:002013-10-29T20:06:23.290+00:00@PearlMusic - I don't want to hijack this thre...@PearlMusic - I don't want to hijack this thread to comment on Polish Catholicism, but if it's of any comfort to you, I had the same exact experience at a university in Warsaw. Granted, I was studying humanities and that seems to draw a greater-than-normal crowd of liberal professors (my language 'open-debate' classes were more about indoctrination sometimes than actually learning a language). I do think (although I might be mistaken) that there is a greater number of faithful Catholics amongst those studying and teaching at the 'polytechnic' schools - at least just from a cursory glance at my university social circles. Plus, the student population at those schools is usually mostly male :) <br /><br />Seraphic, I think part of what PearlMusic was trying to articulate is that while for Westerners visiting Poland the statistics - and overflowing churches for holy days - are impressive and inspiring, for native Poles it's disheartening that a) there are less people in the churches than before b) a lot of our fellow countrymen's spirituality seems to be strictly ritualistic or tradition-bound, not exemplified in work, in the street, at home. I suppose that is something that we all struggle with individually - but it is disheartening that with such a high rate of church-going Catholics we still have so many social problems which deeply affect the country (corruption, alcoholism, disrespect for people's property, unjust treatment at work, I could go on...). <br /><br /><br />AmericanInWarsawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03100624791173596681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-6907827431863700422013-10-29T19:38:16.914+00:002013-10-29T19:38:16.914+00:00Well, if people want to talk to you because of wha...Well, if people want to talk to you because of what you do, then there's no reason for your heart to sink! Personally, I'm always interested in women who have real solid trades like "engineer" and "nurse" and "veterinarian"--probably because, writing apart, I've been a Jill of pink collar not-quite-trades!Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-90146181697230365512013-10-29T18:33:14.656+00:002013-10-29T18:33:14.656+00:00My heart always sinks when someone asks me what I ...My heart always sinks when someone asks me what I do. I am often greeted with stunned silence, or an exclamation of "That's very impressive!" when I mention that I am an Engineer. I try and be vague, just mentioning the industry I work in or the company I work for, but people do just keep asking questions until they find out what I actually do. How to avoid this? I worked for a charity for 6 years and found I received a much warmer response from people, male and female when mentioning my work. <br /><br />As far as relationships with "blue collar" men, they often have skills we don't often encounter amongst our fellow white collar workers. I recently met a man who is qualified as a master plasterer and worked on gothic buildings for many years and now works as a technician. Personally, I found this very attractive and would love to have a man around who really knows his way around technology and is good at DIY.Sunnysaffernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-76547119757414709742013-10-29T18:21:05.496+00:002013-10-29T18:21:05.496+00:00Magnificat, I'm glad to hear that! It's in...Magnificat, I'm glad to hear that! It's interesting how people in smaller towns and in the countryside still seem to be more devout. This is true even for Quebec, which went from being one of the most pious Catholic places in the world to one of the least! <br /><br />Another way to get around saying that one is a PhD student is to say that one is a graduate student. <br /><br />Listen, y'all. You know and I know that there is absolutely wrong with being a PhD student. It's a fantastic challenge and it looks really good on a CV. It can even get you a good/interesting job. But IF IT IS TRUE (examine your your experience to determine this) that it acts as a barrier between you and other people, leading men to put you down in a pre-emptive strike and women to shrug and change the topic, then for your own good, you'll want to save it for when you know someone better. Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-45258980890634602702013-10-29T17:53:17.288+00:002013-10-29T17:53:17.288+00:00Magnificat said...
Dear Auntie Seraphic, new Aust...Magnificat said...<br /><br />Dear Auntie Seraphic, new Austrian reader here. (Sorry for mistakes in with English.)<br />You know the Austrian and German habits of attending Sunday Mass (less than 15% of the Catholics) and receiving Hl. Communion quite well.. But in fact, at least in the towns, devout Catholics all gather in Curches where Confession is frequently offered.<br />Just wantetd to thank you for writing this blog, I love it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-68186035169618560232013-10-29T17:22:42.122+00:002013-10-29T17:22:42.122+00:00@ Pearlmusic
> It is not very common to be, fo...@ Pearlmusic <br />> It is not very common to be, for example, a college teacher and Catholic.<br /><br />Consider ~45 years of communism, when achieving higher professional status may have involved having Catholicism yanked out of you one way or another. Therefore: I’d assume ours is the second generation to have actual free choice in pursuing a chosen belief system and go do stuff with it literally WHEREVER we want. We have peer pressure, but not institutional pressure. And, I may have this wrong, but AFAIR higher education in the young does correlate with self-selected atheism (after all, if being young is the time to rebel, becoming atheist is kind of to be expected in a largely Catholic country). So I wouldn’t expect religious academics to advertise the fact too much. It can’t be much fun to be Permanent Church Spokesperson and Full-Time One-Person Committee to Argue the Inquisition Wasn’t Worse Than Secular Medieval Courts. <br /><br />For example, you probably wouldn’t know I’m Catholic, if we worked together, unless you got me to talk about Hot Button Issues reluctantly or ended up asking me why I don’t work on Sunday or some such thing. <br /><br />Because my Catholicism isn’t a necessary bit of data for my academic friends or students, or my clients and very often ends up being an unnecessarily controversial topic.<br /><br />---<br /><br />And by the way: I’m NOT the right person to say anything about dating but as far as doing a PhD goes, when I had classes assigned and got money for teaching, I told people that was what I was doing (“I teach at a university as a doctoral student”), if they asked about my job. Now, without a teaching assignment and the cash, I’d probably mention being a translator, and the PhD only if context warranted that.<br /><br />As far as I’m concerned, a PhD is just like a military rank or a professional title – you just get it if you jump successfully through the right hoops. No big deal. People react in different ways (as Jam pointed out), but that’s perfectly okay, IMO. Iotanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-55027428953517081622013-10-29T16:04:56.809+00:002013-10-29T16:04:56.809+00:00In my experience "PhD" always comes out ...In my experience "PhD" always comes out (if you're working on it full time). I just came back from doing research. "Oh? What kind of research?" My students email me on Sundays all the time. "Oh? What do you teach?" I'm a teacher. "Oh? What grades?" I'm a student. "Oh? When do you graduate?" In my experience it just doesn't work to be vague. If you have finished the degree I agree you shouldn't introduce yourself as a PhD over and above introducing yourself as a professor, a scientist, etc; but there is truly no acceptable synonym for "I'm finishing my PhD" if that is what you "do". And anyway, I generally end up feeling like a snob when I try to avoid saying it. What, I think the plebs won't understand?<br /><br />In my experience there are three ways people interpret the statement "I'm finishing a PhD" - both men and women.<br />(1) I'm an interesting person with a cool life path.<br />(2) I'm a visitor from Plant Smart Person who's just killing time until I can get back to reading my dictionary.<br />(3) I think I'm so much better than you.<br />I can't really know what the person's reaction is going to be; and I can't help it anyway. So I don't try to anticipate and tailor my statements to appease category 3.Jamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18076215213828545013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-21104559393222719832013-10-29T15:28:32.824+00:002013-10-29T15:28:32.824+00:00Good idea, thanks! Actually I started with somethi...Good idea, thanks! Actually I started with something like "research project", but the conversation went on to a doctorate. Perhaps PhD itself sounds like bragging, even without us intentionally putting it that way: "hey, man, I'm so smart, I'm doing a PhD". And maybe often "But that won't get you a nice guy, madam" is the answer.Pearlmusicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-40545637951276828952013-10-29T15:12:30.995+00:002013-10-29T15:12:30.995+00:00A much better answer.
Meanwhile, could you not h...A much better answer. <br /><br />Meanwhile, could you not have said, "A study project?" "A school project?" "A research project?" <br /><br />I was very pleased with myself when I got into a PhD program, so please I enjoyed telling others that I was doing a PhD, but this never ever got me any dates. It may have looked like I was bragging. Maybe I was bragging a little.<br />Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-82511572968816059182013-10-29T15:03:50.475+00:002013-10-29T15:03:50.475+00:00Right - I'm a bit judgemental today, sorry! Su...Right - I'm a bit judgemental today, sorry! Sure, ignorance is not the same as hypocrisy and I didn't mean that of course. But when you travel, you sometimes get the feeling of "how much better this country is than mine", but without realizing the facts. That's to my defense.<br /><br />As for academic jobs, they are jobs like many others. If you choose - or, better, are offered an academic post (PraeDoc or something similar), it is quite obvious you will have to do your degrees or else you're fired. That's the same in teaching an many others. Recently, I've had a talk with a guy (he has a girlfriend, I'm Single) and I explained to him I had to travel because of a PhD project. <br /><br />"Oh, PhD ist not a must-have", he said very confidently. <br />"No", I replied calmly, before I got to say something like "Are you suggesting my Singleness has got something to do with PhD?!". Instead, I said: "But I try to make a living out of it".<br /><br />End of story. I guess the Holy Spirit was hovering above. He's been full of respect for me ever since.<br /><br />Pearlmusicnoreply@blogger.com