tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post7819333940417137027..comments2023-12-25T11:13:04.495+00:00Comments on Seraphic Singles: Tentative Thoughts on Woman and GuiltSeraphichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-87423660951707845692011-09-12T03:13:57.052+01:002011-09-12T03:13:57.052+01:00Yeah, I was just thinking, while marriage might be...Yeah, I was just thinking, while marriage might be a cure for that kind of concupiscence, it definitely won't be for a seriously unchaste lifestyle, or for habitual sexual sin--read, porn/masturbation/etc. The latter should be resolved well before marriage is even in the picture.Sylviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06221464682706193091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-41458500637927238292011-09-09T16:40:31.391+01:002011-09-09T16:40:31.391+01:00Well, if you think I'm saying I was obsessed w...Well, if you think I'm saying I was obsessed with sex before I got married, I wasn't. But Single people do worry about it a lot, in my experience. Will I ever have it? Will I ever have it again? Can you actually die of sexual frustration?<br /><br />Marriage nicely puts sex in its place. It becomes something pleasant and necessary and hopefully as frequent as spouses prefer, but it becomes less of a BIG FAT DEAL. (It can, of course, become a big fat deal if half the couple "doesn't feel like it" for months on end, just as Vitamin C becomes a big fat deal if you discover you have scurvy.) <br /><br />I wish sex didn't currently rule the world. It makes such a ghastly dictator.Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-60614618396535163062011-09-09T16:33:45.891+01:002011-09-09T16:33:45.891+01:00"She slept with men and pretended she didn...<i>"She slept with men and pretended she didn't."</i><br /><br />I read this line differently. There are women who go around, not being silent about their sexual pasts and presents, but with vocal pretences to purity and virginity when they are in fact sleeping around that very same night.<br /><br />That bothers the living daylights out of me - and partly because the men who sleep with those women then think that all 'good girls' are much the same, and will treat women who are serious about chastity as if they are merely <i>saying</i> that they are but in fact, acting quite differently.<br /><br /><i>Women are not sin. We do sin.</i><br /><br />Sadly, there are a lot of people who misinterpret Genesis to say that women are sin and temptation and all that is fallen and wrong with the world.theobromophilenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-29531501572024608562011-09-09T16:25:58.090+01:002011-09-09T16:25:58.090+01:00"Astonishingly, one thing marriage can cure i..."Astonishingly, one thing marriage can cure is fixation with sex (aka concupiscence)."<br /><br />I get what you are saying here, which is a hopeful thought, but I can't help but think it's also a bit dangerously put . . .Sylviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06221464682706193091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-56077730719418394912011-09-09T16:11:30.994+01:002011-09-09T16:11:30.994+01:00I have always felt drawn to St Paul's teaching...I have always felt drawn to St Paul's teaching on the significance of sexual intercourse and its binding power, though I cannot of course be certain that I know what he meant by it. Observation suggests to me that people are forever marked by each person they sleep with in a way that could be called a bond, even if the bond is resented or rejected by both parties involved. I suppose the pop-culture term for it, "baggage," is as good as any other. Is it possible that this is something of what Paul meant? <br /><br />The bonding power of sexual intimacy appears to happen at a soul-deep level, too, and is not merely a practical matter or a question of broken hearts or anything like that. Like a few other deep experiences (baptism, mourning, absolution) the impact of this bonding cannot in fact be gauged by our emotional response to it: feelings may not be present at all, but the experience goes on resonating in what I must suppose is the soul. <br /><br />ClioAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-85702336575147628272011-09-09T14:32:17.149+01:002011-09-09T14:32:17.149+01:00On the peripheral subject afoot, it may be helpful...On the peripheral subject afoot, it may be helpful noting the paucity of scriptural detail on <i>how to get married</i>. There is a lot about wedding feasts, and how Jacob went into a tent and Laban brought in Lia etc.; for more, enjoy this <a href="http://www.holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/markshea/sheavings/86.asp" rel="nofollow">funny Sheaving</a>.<br /><br />Now, I obviously don't want to say that biblical non-specificity implies historical lack --- that there was <i>no</i> ceremony around marrying --- but rather, that at the heart of getting married was in any case to do what married people do. To try, with JPII, to translate something of <i>the language of our bodies</i>, the meaning of "the marital act" is in fact to contract, to promise a (natural, pre-sacramental) marriage; and that, absent external impediments, this would be naturally binding. External impediments might include, e.g., that the bride's father (Laban, for Rachel) or owner (Rachel, for Bala) hasn't given leave that she be married, or if either is acting under coercion; or if the one is acting deceitfully, then the other is in justice not bound.<br /><br />Of course, the baptised are supposed to subordinate the flesh to the spirit; and so two Christians who would marry are to first vow their marriage according to the form prescribed, which the Church has decreed shall be done in the presence of Her minister, and except for grave reasons publically.some guy on the streethttp://epistle-null.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-15111550946530708342011-09-09T10:01:25.522+01:002011-09-09T10:01:25.522+01:00Anorexia and bulemia are mental illnesses, not sin...Anorexia and bulemia are mental illnesses, not sins, but you can certainly risk getting them through sins, e.g. imprudence, intemperence, vanity. <br /><br />Isabella, you don't even know this guy's name and you let his dumb comment influence your clothing choices???<br /><br />I have been exchanging emails back and forth with My Usual Source, and he does not seem to be impressed with my use of the word ontological (which just means "of being") by the way. <br /><br />He agrees that baptism and confirmation confer a change in the soul and that priesthood confers "a character" which theologians (Counter-Ref?) used to counter Protestant ideas that priesthood was just a rank. <br /><br />He also agrees that virginity is a great good, and that loss of it creates a psychological and historical change (e.g. once it's gone, it's gone). He has not said it is a quality of the soul, however. <br /><br />I shall have to do the hard work and look it up in Aquinas now, moan groan. I wish I had said "hermeneutical" (of understanding) change because when you are a virgin you don't know what sex is like, and when you aren't, you do. And, believe me, when you are married, it is not as big a deal!!! It's as necessary to marital happiness as financial responsibility and keeping a reasonably tidy house, but it is not an obsession. Astonishingly, one thing marriage can cure is fixation with sex (aka concupiscence). <br /><br />St. Paul and the binding-yourself-to-prostitutes thing... Yes, but I don't know what he meant by that, really. Maybe he just meant you are in a state of sin, and you can get rid of that tie of fornication through repentance, confession and forgiveness.<br /><br />However, this is a fine opportunity for me to bang my drum against "serial monogamy" and point out that condoms do not seem to protect women against cervical cancer. The more men you sleep with, even using a condom every time, the more likely you are to get the venereal disease that gives you cervical cancer. Of course, you might have extremely bad luck and get the cervical cancer VD from the one and only man you ever sleep with, which is a very depressing thought. <br /><br />So in a physical way, you are indeed stuck with whatever you were stuck with when you had sex with whomever.Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-41628380036866802922011-09-09T03:33:51.938+01:002011-09-09T03:33:51.938+01:00This was so exactly what I needed to read today. E...This was so exactly what I needed to read today. Especially on sins and virginity and the way medievals saw that. <br /><br />1. Your exchange with Crescat on gluttony. I think bulemia and anorexia can be sinful too. So people who are size 2 need not act so holy and smug - I struggled with both disorders in my teens and it began with vanity (a sin) which got out of control.<br /><br />2. I just got a really good lesson on not judging people by appearances. I design and make most of my clothes based on what I like, vs "fashion". The grocery store guy didn't ask for my ID today because he said he'd been watching me & thought I looked like someone on TV. I asked who. He said "oh, you know - like True Blood or something". I googled it and, oh blech. Ick. Shudder. Am ready to go buy some "Mom jeans" and polyester tops. Do they have that show in the UK? Yuck.<br /><br />A wool habit sounds really good right about now. Your suggestion to defend other girls who are being gossiped about is a good penance - maybe priests should read that. Thanks for the reminder that image is NOT reality, especially after my encounter at the store. All kinds of good stuff today. <br /><br />Write another book, please? <br /><br />Isabella of the northAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-10820189231654116862011-09-09T00:47:55.738+01:002011-09-09T00:47:55.738+01:00I've felt guilt over past romantically-related...I've felt guilt over past romantically-related mistakes - not because of what others' opinions or expectations of me might be, but for the times that I failed to live up to what I wanted for myself and boundaries I thought I had set clearly, for the times I chose to ignore reality, and for the times I made myself absolutely miserable trying to be someone I wasn't in the name of "making it work" and compromising. All of this only became clear in hindsight, but I still regret the time wasted and tears cried. I don't think it has much to do with society.<br /><br />So I guess mine is a more self-centered guilt. And of course there are many different situations out there. But I think what really matters is that God forgives, and we can forgive ourselves and learn to make better choices in the future. (I'm not talking about gossip, but that rotten feeling of having fallen short in your own mind.) If I could relive those times, I would make different choices, but since I can't, I will make the better choices next time (and God willing, hopefully there will be a next time).marynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-48304583246243018572011-09-09T00:44:46.263+01:002011-09-09T00:44:46.263+01:00I was wondering about the meaning of ontological a...I was wondering about the meaning of ontological and must look that up. I've certainly heard it mentioned before in regards to ordination of priests.<br />I once hung out in pentecostal circles (not sure what you call it in Scotland - Charismatic?) and there was the idea that when you had sex with someone a 'soul-tie' was created - something indeed changed in your soul (or possibly spirit or both - it was a bit vague). <br />Would this idea fit the ontological change theory?kiwikatienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-20633080818992987952011-09-08T23:23:14.877+01:002011-09-08T23:23:14.877+01:00If a guy sleeps around, his buddies probably won&#...If a guy sleeps around, his buddies probably won't ditch him... if a good girl is found out to do so, she may very likely find that she is dropped by her fellow good girls social circle... and the good guys they hang with...<br /><br />I think a man being called "gay" would have similar problems (I think a woman being falsely called a lesbian would probably have the same reaction to your male example). If people believe the rumor, the guy is likely to be concerned about being ostracized by others...<br /><br />A hypothesis....Little Marynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-11989001814809758352011-09-08T22:20:20.766+01:002011-09-08T22:20:20.766+01:00Gluttony is a deadly sin, but being overweight is ...Gluttony is a deadly sin, but being overweight is not. Plenty of people just are plump. It's glandular, or it's genetics, or it's medication, or it's middle-aged spread.<br /><br />The act of stuffing one's face long after one should have stopped is a sin, but being fat is not.Seraphichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251504033428511090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-16081384679344853302011-09-08T22:09:31.692+01:002011-09-08T22:09:31.692+01:00Gluttony is a sin which results in obesity, so I w...Gluttony is a sin which results in obesity, so I wouldn't classify it as a non-sin. Just saying.The Crescathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06117353945124506952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-3684801476896687092011-09-08T20:41:36.840+01:002011-09-08T20:41:36.840+01:00Well now I am wondering if I got that wrong, and I...Well now I am wondering if I got that wrong, and I will have to go and consult an expert. Obviously we do not have the same obsession with "the crown of virginity" as had the Early and Mediaeval Fathers.<br /><br />I go check now. Meanwhile, there is certainly a hermeneutical change! And up until 1963 just about all Christians thought virginity was a Big Deal. Let me check.<br /><br />I shall return.Mrs McLeanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18095035617334068201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-85475465649494407522011-09-08T17:08:47.697+01:002011-09-08T17:08:47.697+01:00I too, am curious for further explanation of how &...I too, am curious for further explanation of how "both men and women are changed ontologically when we first have sexual intercourse of our own free will"? Could you say more, and if you had any particular theologians in mind with the same idea, tell us who they are? Thanks!MaryJanenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6905236167079601771.post-85065723773692256722011-09-08T14:05:46.277+01:002011-09-08T14:05:46.277+01:00Two disparate comments:
Thanks for elaborating, a...Two disparate comments:<br /><br />Thanks for elaborating, and so clearly. Yes, this certainly rings true. It also seems to me that there is some social pressure on women to be beautiful and perfect, in a way that men are not pressured. (Not to say that men aren't pressured, of course, but that this is a lie that rolls off their backs more easily.)<br /><br />The one sticking point I have is a theological one: Ontological change at the first sexual intercourse!? I mean, I understand the soul's configuration to Christ at baptism, confirmation, and ordination. But loss of virginity effecting a change in one's very being? Really? A significant change, certainly, but an ontological one? I cannot fathom a theology that explains this idea satisfactorily. Admittedly, I am speaking from the perspective of a young single, who knows much more about liturgical theology than about sex and marriage. But I am utterly baffled. Would you please elaborate so that I can at least understand where you're coming from?<br /><br />Thank you much! :)Claire Christinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00356741555403954008noreply@blogger.com