St. Edith Stein's vision of womanhood involves the notion that women are helpers, but offer our help only when asked for, and then modestly return to the background to do our own thing. St. Edith Stein was operating under a classical assumption that women were made for men, an idea that was gently developed by Bl. John Paul II, who held that women, like men, "were made for themselves" but called to service.
My friend Lily and I, while backing up each other's sense that women should not ask men out on dates, used to say, "Call-Response" to each other. Call-Response. Call-Response. It was our shorthand for the idea that men call women and women respond. No call, no response.
That can be an alarming idea. A very alarming idea indeed. After all, what if a man doesn't call? Or what if the right man doesn't call? And this, unfortunately, is the thought that gnaws upon the minds of women who want to be married and aren't. It's made all the worse by the Sexual Revolution, which hates marriage and loves divorce and treats men and women like lease-to-own automobiles.
One of my few male detractors, in a comment I didn't publish (naturally), linked to a website dedicated to warning men not to marry. I'm always amazed when Catholic and Christian men sign on for anti-marriage campaigns, but there it is. To such men I would say, "Okay, buddy. If you don't want to get married, you don't have to get married. But don't have any kids either. And don't waste the lives of women who don't want to be sterile concubines. And, incidentally, premarital sex is still a mortal sin."
The next step would be for such men to tattoo "Marriage Sucks" on their ring fingers, where Single women naturally glance when they think a man looks interesting. I think even the most reality-denying women would pause before pursuing a guy who was so hard-core anti-marriage that he actually tattooed it on himself. For balance he could tattoo a big V for vasectomy on the ring finger of his other hand, and thus attract only those women who want a guy who will offer neither permanence nor children. Birds of a feather.
And what does a girl do if she is surrounded by such men? Well, I'll tell you. She gets the best education she can afford, she gets a job, she lives within her means and saves for a rainy day, she goes out into the world to have fun conversations and make friends, and she goes to Church to ask the Lord where He wants her to serve.
If men don't want to get married, there's no point crying. It's not like men who are hardcore anti-marriage are all that and a bag of chips. Sure, they need help, but they aren't asking for it, so it's no woman's job to offer it. Call-Response. If they don't call, you don't respond. You don't have to put aside your own interests, or make any sacrifices, or shelve your dreams to chase after potential husbands, particularly the ones who are anti-marriage, and indeed you should not. If women are financially secure and not overwhelmingly troubled by sexual temptation, then men need women more than women need men.* That said, it's not nice to rub men's noses in this. It's not friendly. Women are, at very least, called to be the friends of men.
It seems to me that the anti-marriage brigade is not as afraid of marriage as it is of divorce. But that is a subject for another post. What I am thinking of today is of a certain female detachment. I have the image of a slim young librarian in my head (why a librarian, I do not know, and the library I am thinking of no longer exists) shelving books in tranquility. She enjoys her job, she loves her friends, she's open to meeting new people--being a friendly sort--but she blenches at the idea of actively searching for men. I don't know if a man she discovers she loves will ever ask my imaginary librarian to assuage his longing by marrying him, but I know she's got self-possession. She has dignity, and I mean that in a good way.
*Naturally this is offset by the not-very-rooted-in-reality, culturally determined, unscientific idea that unmarried women are failures in some way. When I was at B.C. on full scholarship (oh, alas), a young Vietnamese manicurist who told me that what she liked best about the USA was seeing all the cars go back and forth (?), upon hearing that I was 36 and unmarried, gave me such a look of astonished pity, that I am sure I will never forget it. I suspect that the taboo about unmarried women is society's way of making sure enough women knuckle under and just get married, so that men settle down--or at least be less tempted to riot in the streets--and babies get born.
26 comments:
Auntie Seraphic,
Thanks for yet another encouraging, thought-provoking post! This really resonates with conversations I've had recently with a good friend, as we've pondered situations we've both found ourselves in with single Christian men who seem intent on pursuing us as friends, but are equally intent on not marrying. I love the Call-Response reminder! And I’m equally puzzled and intrigued with what has shifted so dramatically with regard to (Christian) men's reluctance to marry. I remember my father once remarking that any time he asked a girl out on a date as a young man, he assumed she was "the one he’d marry" and sadly realized, when a second date was politely declined, that this was not, in fact, his future wife!
I love the idea of our anti-marriage male counterparts tattooing "marriage sucks" on their ring fingers. But one thing I've come to realize lately about my own part in this (as a single woman who would like to be married) is that these men often DO give very clear signs very early on that they have no intention of committing, if we're prepared to open our eyes. But speaking from my own experience, we don't want to see the "marriage sucks" tattoos, because we think - we're both Christians, we have a value for marriage and family, presumably this guy WANTS to marry, perhaps he wants to marry ME, etc. But for whatever reason, not all these men do want to marry, despite, perhaps, words to the contrary.
I've been evaluating my most recent relationship and in hindsight have seen that the "marriage sucks" tattoo was clearly displayed, but I didn't want to acknowledge it. This man was a Christian, and we had all the most important things in common - faith, value for marriage/family, education/career, families that shared these values, etc. In other words, the makings of a potentially good relationship. But after a short time, he decided he just wanted to be friends, and rapidly went on to date, and leave, other women. And I’ve realized, much to my chagrin, if I was perfectly honest with myself, that these signs were clear right up front. He didn't need a tattoo, I just needed to open my eyes!
My friend and I have been discussing our puzzlement over how these men then come back and want to be "close friends" - but nothing further. They value our opinions, they say. It's so hard to find good friends, and they're blessed to have us, they say. We've both been clear with these gentlemen that if they wish to pursue a romantic relationship that's one thing, but that we're not available to be best friends and confidantes when they have no further intentions towards us. It strikes me that what some men are looking for is a Christian version of "friends with (non-sexual) benefits" - they see the value that we as women add to their lives, and yet - YET - the option of having this on a permanent basis, together with the sexual benefits of marriage, plus a happy home and dinner on the table (how is that not a good deal?!) is not what they're in the market for. I'm curious what others think of this, or what others' experiences have been. Why are men looking for friendship rather than marriage?
But like Auntie says - we can choose to maintain our dignity, carry on with the things the Lord has called us to do, and do not have to invest time with those who aren't interested in investing in marriage! I'm curious to hear what others think about where the fear/avoidance of marriage has come from, in Christian (Catholic/Protestant) circles in this generation. I can understand from a non-faith-based perspective that if you can have all the benefits of marriage without the need for commitment, there's an attractiveness in choosing non-commitment. But for those who do not choose to live/sleep together outside of marriage - wouldn't marriage be a HIGHER priority rather than something to put off?
Sorry for such a long and rambling comment!
I feel for all the eavesdroppers who are right now clenching their fists and saying, "But I'm a MAN and I want to be MARRIED!" Of course, this is not about them, but I could understand their frustration!
I don't have many answers, but I do know that there's not a lot of calling seeming to happen in my local Catholic scene. And how I wish there were. BUT, do I wish to dangle my heart in front of a young man who does not have the gumption to ask a girl out for coffee, and then the nous to call again in a couple of days and mention that he has tickets to see some excellent live music?
No. If there's one thing I am learning (and this blog is a help!), it's that there's one man who is quite mad about me, and He's set the bar pretty high. So, if they can't make that little bit of an effort to "Call", I shouldn't make plans for a pre-emptive "Response". Because life is too short to hope to get married to someone who doesn't really seem that keen to get married ... or at least, that keen to get married to me :)
Excellent post, and a reminder we probably all need :)
Couldn't the Call-Response theory be also extended to include our response to what we think is a marriage vocation, but there is no Mr. Right yet? It seems to me, in light of what you've been saying before, that we should also wait to "respond" to matrimony and maternity until God has called us to that one person (as painful as the waiting is!)
Also, just out of curiosity, what do you think is inherently bad about pursuing men? Is it just that girls might end up with men who are less than thrilled with them and feel trapped? Is it just a practical statement that it rarely works, or are there other theological/sociological arguments against it?
@Urszula. Everyone is called to love and service and to take up his cross and follow Christ. After that, it's more of a question of the community calling you. A woman can't marry until she is called by a person to marry. A man can't be ordained until his bishop calls him to be ordained. A nun can't take vows until a community says okay. And lots of men don't call (in more ways than one!), lots of bishops say no, and lots of communities say, "We think you'd be happier elsewhere."
I wonder if it wouldn't be a more effective ordination campaign to, instead of asking men "Is God calling you?", to say boldly and honestly, "Your bishop is calling you." Enough of this could be and maybe and howdoyoufeel! If the parish priest were to say, "Young men of the parish. The bishop is coming to talk to you about the seminary. SHOW UP!" then maybe they'd show up. I am all for men yelling at men, partly because life has shown me that women yelling at men is not half as effective and very often backfires.
Anyway, I think women who don't feel called to a religious vocation can prepare for marriage by learning how to be tolerant and easygoing, although adamantine when it comes to the God stuff, and how to get really stubborn stains out of the tablecloth. Listening skills are a major plus.
Have a lot of girlfriends and have parties together to which you invite marriage-age boys. I discovered that deliberately making friends with super-feminine girls totally paid off. (Incidentally, super-feminine didn't mean dumb. You can be super-feminine and still belong to Mensa.)
If marriage-age boys ever get tired of parties that have free booze and free food and lots of fun girls around, then Western Civilization is well and truly dead.
@HappyToBeHere. I have been thinking a lot about the plight of men who just don't cut it in today's marriage market. I feel really badly for them, especially if they had their act together enough (or the good luck) to have a good job and be in a position where they really could support a family. It may be a situation in which they just do not get women to such an extent that they turn women off.
What are such men to do? And it occurs to me that there are many Christian women who are not self-sufficient and are so much in danger from being poor and unmarried in their countries, that they may be delighted to marry nice Western men and learn to love them after they are married, simply because they are now their men.
I could not live that way, but I grew up thinking of myself as the equal of my brothers and that what I wanted in a husband was not a provider or means to social position but entertainment, or intellectual-and-emotional companionship. And I suspect this is a "rich girl" thing, "rich" meaning, "richer than the average human woman, the average human woman being an Asian woman staying alive through subsistence farming."
Suggesting awkward Western men just go to Asia and find women who don't know or care that they are awkward is probably really shocking. Yet another reason why I prefer to write for women, not men. Still, my idea is that they MARRY them and bring them back and have lots of little children, not that they exploit them like the disgusting Western sex tourists.
@HappyToBeHere. I have been thinking a lot about the plight of men who just don't cut it in today's marriage market. I feel really badly for them, especially if they had their act together enough (or the good luck) to have a good job and be in a position where they really could support a family. It may be a situation in which they just do not get women to such an extent that they turn women off.
What are such men to do? And it occurs to me that there are many Christian women who are not self-sufficient and are so much in danger from being poor and unmarried in their countries, that they may be delighted to marry nice Western men and learn to love them after they are married, simply because they are now their men.
I could not live that way, but I grew up thinking of myself as the equal of my brothers and that what I wanted in a husband was not a provider or means to social position but entertainment, or intellectual-and-emotional companionship. And I suspect this is a "rich girl" thing, "rich" meaning, "richer than the average human woman, the average human woman being an Asian woman staying alive through subsistence farming."
Suggesting awkward Western men just go to Asia and find women who don't know or care that they are awkward is probably really shocking. Yet another reason why I prefer to write for women, not men. Still, my idea is that they MARRY them and bring them back and have lots of little children, not that they exploit them like the disgusting Western sex tourists.
@HappyToBeHere. I have been thinking a lot about the plight of men who just don't cut it in today's marriage market. I feel really badly for them, especially if they had their act together enough (or the good luck) to have a good job and be in a position where they really could support a family. It may be a situation in which they just do not get women to such an extent that they turn women off.
What are such men to do? And it occurs to me that there are many Christian women who are not self-sufficient and are so much in danger from being poor and unmarried in their countries, that they may be delighted to marry nice Western men and learn to love them after they are married, simply because they are now their men.
I could not live that way, but I grew up thinking of myself as the equal of my brothers and that what I wanted in a husband was not a provider or means to social position but entertainment, or intellectual-and-emotional companionship. And I suspect this is a "rich girl" thing, "rich" meaning, "richer than the average human woman, the average human woman being an Asian woman staying alive through subsistence farming."
Suggesting awkward Western men just go to Asia and find women who don't know or care that they are awkward is probably really shocking. Yet another reason why I prefer to write for women, not men. Still, my idea is that they MARRY them and bring them back and have lots of little children, not that they exploit them like the disgusting Western sex tourists.
I don't know, Seraphic ... this is exactly what some corners of the Manospere suggests. Date American women, but marry someone from a third-world country who will have "traditional values" and not expect what a Western women would consider good treatment. It seems there's great opportunity for exploitation, even if they do get married. Not that any Catholic man who would marry a woman from a poor country is going to take advantage, but I wouldn't *advise* it because some might.
Better, perhaps, to make a few good female friends who can coach you a bit about women. If the man has sisters, that's ideal. But I think most men with sisters have a leg up on the dating scene already. My husband has SEVEN. There was nothing about women he needed to have explained to him.
In general, though, the Confirmed Bachelor is usually to be avoided. Marriage and family are big challenges -- a vocation! I have a lot of respect for a man who acknowledges that he isn't up for that vocation. It means that you'll always be struggling to make more money to support your family, when maybe you'd rather work two days a week and camp in your car. It means you probably won't have the time or money to travel.
Of course such a man should have some kind of plan in place in case he becomes disabled, and what to do after retirement. But we all should.
One only hopes that the Confirmed Bachelor will become a Seraphic Bachelor and begin to see his singleness as a call to serve in other ways. Because bachelordom can be merely an excuse for selfishness.
And it is possible that, after time spent avoiding commitment out of fear or out of attachment to certain comforts or pleasures, followed by years of discerning and service, and self-gift, the man will discover a call to marriage after all. And he will gaze deeply into the eyes of the 39+ woman before him, for whom he wasn't at all ready at 25, and decide to pop the question.
You never know.
Of course, the other solution is to help men be less awkward, but I haven't the foggiest clue how to do that.
Oh, Sheila, my last comment crossed yours. Well, I know that's what the Manosphere recommends, but it says that to blame American women, not out of recognition that some of the disappointed men of the Manosphere just don't have what it takes to attract American women or Western women in general.
Seraphic,
As someone currently waiting for a call, I really appreciate this post. I will keep repeating Call-Response to myself so that I will resist the tempation to call him.
At what point IS it acceptable to start making calls? Only after you have had the let's-be-exclusive chat?
SundayBorn,
Yes I too didn't see the all-too-obvious Marriage Sucks tattoo in my last relationship. Or rather, I did see it but kept hoping he would eventually be willing to accept the responsibility of a wife (and possibly children). Some men prefer not to have people depending on them - too much pressure!
I know one great marriageable guy who panics at the idea of having to carry "the financial burden" alone but would be a great catch for a woman who is serious about working outside the home full-time, even after having kids, if kids they had. He's in central Europe, though.
Recently I came across a blog post about courtship for Catholic Gentlemen. It said: "Catholic courtship begins before the first date. In choosing a woman to ask on a date, the Catholic Gentleman looks for a woman who obtains many of the virtues found in the Blessed Mother".
Well, surely Virgin Mary is a role model for Catholic women, but She is unique. No other woman will ever be born without original sin and will give birth to the Son of God. I'm afraid that some Catholic men, after being advised this are going to simplify the message and stop asking out nice Catholic girls because they seem to be no match to the Blessed Mother at first sight. Yes, we must grow in virtue, but when compared to Her we will never be good enough. Perhaps this might discourage some Christian men from marrying decent, yet imperfect Christian women.
Oh boy. Fortunately the great majority of men don't look to random blogs for permission to like the kinds of girls that they like. The wise-talking fuzzy-haired gingers of the world will do okay.
Where in Central Europe? ;)
The fear of marriage stems I think from some Catholic men's fear of a woman taking advantage of their earning power or solely 'using' them for children, attitudes which I've crossed a couple of times especially in the blogging world. I don't know that they are inherently Catholic or anti-Catholic, it seems to me that that is how modern-day male insecurity manifests itself.
I know this is a good reminder for most women, but I do know of a few who use the idea that "men should pursue" to excuse their lack of (re-) action that is really due to insecurity...
My sister passed up a good guy, who she was VERY interested in, saying he didn't "pursue" her even though he told her that he liked her. Now he's married to a mediocre woman.
So don't call, but do respond!
Re: Pearlmusic ....
Hahahahaha, oh gosh, seriously?! We're in trouble.
@SundayBorn
Good for you for refusing to be the emotional girlfriend/wife of those guys. Too often I didn't do that for various reasons (including, at least once, that I wasn't that into him, either), and it really hurt my self-concept as a woman. Keep holding out for a guy who knows that the closest friendship between a man and a woman happens in marriage!
Going back to the first comment...
"It strikes me that what some men are looking for is a Christian version of 'friends with (non-sexual) benefits'"
This is a really good way to put it, SundayBorn! It is one of the factors that have led me to finally give up my "friendships-with-guys-are-great-and-totally-possible" stance. I cherish the handful of close guy friends I made during college, but most of them have a girlfriend or wife by now, so the intensity of the friendship has naturally been dialed way down. And that's ok, because I've realized that it is virtually impossible to have a close, drama-free friendship with a guy.
I know I'm getting off track here, but this got me thinking...I vastly prefer to date guys I've gotten to know as friends first, so how is this gonna work?? If I'm swearing off investing in one-on-one friendships with guys, do I have to resign myself to going out with acquaintances?
Auntie, I need your help...
Keep going out and meeting people and keep making friends who are guys, but don't treat them like girls. Don't talk to them as though they are girls. Don't tell them your deep dark secrets. Don't let it 'all hang out.' Keep it light.
@HappyToBeHere - hopefully, most men are not looking for a Blessed Mother 2013 version and some of them are likely to be looking for us ;)
@Anamaria - you mentioned women's failure to respond. This is the other issue to think of. Sometimes insecurity is to blame here as you assume. Or perhaps sometimes we fail to acknowledge that we are called indeed, because the signs men are sending tend to be confusing. And the whole idea of pursuit may vary from person to person.
I wholeheartedly agree that a fine balance should be maintained here. We shouldn't, for example, avoid the company of men we really, really like, which is hard because it makes us incredibly vulnerable. However, there must be some space for men to pursue us. After all, we want them to love us out of their free will. And we must acknowledge when a guy isn't interested anymore, which he's fairly unlikely to tell us directly, particularly if he is very polite.
Yeah, some space. Not crazy oh-I-should-play-hard-to-get space.
# Pearlmusic,
As regards having a wife who emulates the Blessed Virgin Mary, I admit I would be tempted, if someone said some such thing in my hearing, to quip that, the absolute uniqueness of Mary as Mother of God aside – because no one can ever match that - if you want a saint for a wife, you should first be a saint husband-candidate. AFAIR the Blessed Mother didn't marry just some respectable Jewish guy, but Saint Joseph.
If the man is not a walking saint, it would be profoundly unfair of him to expect his wife to be.
And, as a bonus, I suspect some of the ideas about Mary (at least in Poland), are a little too piously 19th century romantic for their own good - if you're asking for a wife who emulates Virgin Mary, then, it seems to me, you're asking for a woman who would have the courage to agree, alone and individually, to be given a very special mission from God and take her husband with her on it without him fully knowing what's going on.
Given the way devotion to Mary so often seems to centre around her submissiveness, meekness and patience (which she surely had aplenty), I have a sneaky suspicion the author of this advice might not have entirely factored in other things. Say, two years of exile in Egypt...
:-)
@ Iota - wow, that's so penetrating and inspiring, thanks! Now, I can imagine two people on a Catholic date:
Man: I wonder to which extent you have developped the virtues of Our Lady.
Woman: I wonder if you can ride a donkey!
Sorry, no offense, just laughing! You made my day :D
Ah ha ha! That gives me a great idea for a post.
@ Pearlmusic
Now you've made my day. :-)
As for the inspiring part, all my good ideas are stolen from someone smarter and reworked. This one comes from a particularly interesting reflection on the Virgin Mary as the embodiment of a strong woman.
If Seraphic doesn't mind, and you'd find any use for it, I might try to dig it up and post a link.
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